People often misunderstand the concept behind the idea of god being dead. They think it's a good thing. Sadly, we've seen what happens when people give up on the idea. You've outlined some great arguments against the celebration here.
This is an odd comment, but I thought you might like it. I came across your Substack while searching for the Old Saint story (which you should quote from), and found the Gay Science quote, which I'd seen long ago but forgotten-- so thank you! I wanted to tell my college age children here thi Dec. 21 what God is Dead meant. I'd like to Substack this myself some time-- but probably won't for a long time. Here are the notes in my Draft Substack file, since you might like them, and maybe can fill in the blanks to see what I'll write anyway:
“And what does a saint do in the forest?” asked Zarathustra.
The saint answered, “I make hymns and sing them, and in making hymns I laugh, and weep, and mumble. Thus do I praise God. With singing, weeping, laughing, and mumbling do I praise the God who is my God. But what dost thou bring us as a gift?”
When Zarathustra heard these words, he bowed to the saint and said, “What should I have to give thee! Let me rather hurry hence lest I take aught away from thee!” And thus they parted from one another, the old man and Zarathustra, laughing like schoolboys.
When Zarathustra was alone, however, he said to his heart, “Could it be possible! Has the old saint in the forest not heard about it? God is dead.”
Before Nietzsche, the phrase 'Dieu est mort!' ('God is dead') was written in Gérard de Nerval's 1854 poem "Le Christ aux oliviers" ("Christ at the olive trees").[3] The poem is an adaptation into a verse of a dream-vision that appears in Jean Paul's 1797 novel Siebenkäs under the chapter title of 'The Dead Christ Proclaims That There Is No God'.[4
The phrase is also found in a passage expressed by a narrator in Victor Hugo's 1862 novel Les Misérables:[6][7]
"God is dead, perhaps," said Gerard de Nerval one day to the writer of these lines, confounding progress with God, and taking the interruption of movement for the death of Being.
The madman.- Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place. and cried incessantly: “I seek God! I seek God!” -As many of those who did not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter. Has he got lost? asked one. Did he lose his way like a child? asked another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? emigrated? -Thus they yelled and laughed.
The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his eyes. “Whither is God?” he cried; “I will tell you … God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.”
— The Gay Science §125
“"God is Dead" — What Nietzsche Really Meant: Not a statement of atheism but a warning of nihilism,” The Living Philosophy (Jan 27, 2022)
Now let’s back up a bit, to see why Zarathustraand the Old Saint get along so well:. They both are altruists. Go to the end of the very first secion of the book,w here Zartahursa is talking to the sun:
Like thee must I GO DOWN, as men say, to whom I shall descend.
Bless me, then, thou tranquil eye, that canst behold even the greatest happiness without envy!
Bless the cup that is about to overflow, that the water may flow golden out of it, and carry everywhere the reflection of thy bliss!
Lo! This cup is again going to empty itself, and Zarathustra is again going to be a man.
Thus began Zarathustra’s down-going.
2.
Zarathustra went down the mountain alone, no one meeting him. When he entered the forest, however, there suddenly stood before him an old man, who had left his holy cot to seek roots. And thus spake the old man to Zarathustra:
“No stranger to me is this wanderer: many years ago passed he by. Zarathustra he was called; but he hath altered.
Then thou carriedst thine ashes into the mountains: wilt thou now carry thy fire into the valleys? Fearest thou not the incendiary’s doom?
Yea, I recognise Zarathustra. Pure is his eye, and no loathing lurketh about his mouth. Goeth he not along like a dancer?
Altered is Zarathustra; a child hath Zarathustra become; an awakened one is Zarathustra: what wilt thou do in the land of the sleepers?
As in the sea hast thou lived in solitude, and it hath borne thee up. Alas, wilt thou now go ashore? Alas, wilt thou again drag thy body thyself?”
Zarathustra answered: “I love mankind.”
“Why,” said the saint, “did I go into the forest and the desert? Was it not because I loved men far too well?
Now I love God: men, I do not love. Man is a thing too imperfect for me. Love to man would be fatal to me.”
Zarathustra answered: “What spake I of love! I am bringing gifts unto men.”
“Give them nothing,” said the saint. “Take rather part of their load, and carry it along with them—that will be most agreeable unto them: if only it be agreeable unto thee!
If, however, thou wilt give unto them, give them no more than an alms, and let them also beg for it!”
“No,” replied Zarathustra, “I give no alms. I am not poor enough for that.”
The saint laughed at Zarathustra, and spake thus: “Then see to it that they accept thy treasures! They are distrustful of anchorites, and do not believe that we come with gifts.
The fall of our footsteps ringeth too hollow through their streets. And just as at night, when they are in bed and hear a man abroad long before sunrise, so they ask themselves concerning us: Where goeth the thief?
Go not to men, but stay in the forest! Go rather to the animals! Why not be like me—a bear amongst bears, a bird amongst birds?”
People often misunderstand the concept behind the idea of god being dead. They think it's a good thing. Sadly, we've seen what happens when people give up on the idea. You've outlined some great arguments against the celebration here.
Couldn't agree more Andrew!
This is an odd comment, but I thought you might like it. I came across your Substack while searching for the Old Saint story (which you should quote from), and found the Gay Science quote, which I'd seen long ago but forgotten-- so thank you! I wanted to tell my college age children here thi Dec. 21 what God is Dead meant. I'd like to Substack this myself some time-- but probably won't for a long time. Here are the notes in my Draft Substack file, since you might like them, and maybe can fill in the blanks to see what I'll write anyway:
The relevant part is:, in my attempt to improve o nthe translation, I should really look at the German . near the nberggin, section 2 I think. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1998/1998-h/1998-h.htm
“And what does a saint do in the forest?” asked Zarathustra.
The saint answered, “I make hymns and sing them, and in making hymns I laugh, and weep, and mumble. Thus do I praise God. With singing, weeping, laughing, and mumbling do I praise the God who is my God. But what dost thou bring us as a gift?”
When Zarathustra heard these words, he bowed to the saint and said, “What should I have to give thee! Let me rather hurry hence lest I take aught away from thee!” And thus they parted from one another, the old man and Zarathustra, laughing like schoolboys.
When Zarathustra was alone, however, he said to his heart, “Could it be possible! Has the old saint in the forest not heard about it? God is dead.”
Before Nietzsche, the phrase 'Dieu est mort!' ('God is dead') was written in Gérard de Nerval's 1854 poem "Le Christ aux oliviers" ("Christ at the olive trees").[3] The poem is an adaptation into a verse of a dream-vision that appears in Jean Paul's 1797 novel Siebenkäs under the chapter title of 'The Dead Christ Proclaims That There Is No God'.[4
The phrase is also found in a passage expressed by a narrator in Victor Hugo's 1862 novel Les Misérables:[6][7]
"God is dead, perhaps," said Gerard de Nerval one day to the writer of these lines, confounding progress with God, and taking the interruption of movement for the death of Being.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_is_dead
The madman.- Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place. and cried incessantly: “I seek God! I seek God!” -As many of those who did not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter. Has he got lost? asked one. Did he lose his way like a child? asked another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? emigrated? -Thus they yelled and laughed.
The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his eyes. “Whither is God?” he cried; “I will tell you … God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.”
— The Gay Science §125
“"God is Dead" — What Nietzsche Really Meant: Not a statement of atheism but a warning of nihilism,” The Living Philosophy (Jan 27, 2022)
Now let’s back up a bit, to see why Zarathustraand the Old Saint get along so well:. They both are altruists. Go to the end of the very first secion of the book,w here Zartahursa is talking to the sun:
Like thee must I GO DOWN, as men say, to whom I shall descend.
Bless me, then, thou tranquil eye, that canst behold even the greatest happiness without envy!
Bless the cup that is about to overflow, that the water may flow golden out of it, and carry everywhere the reflection of thy bliss!
Lo! This cup is again going to empty itself, and Zarathustra is again going to be a man.
Thus began Zarathustra’s down-going.
2.
Zarathustra went down the mountain alone, no one meeting him. When he entered the forest, however, there suddenly stood before him an old man, who had left his holy cot to seek roots. And thus spake the old man to Zarathustra:
“No stranger to me is this wanderer: many years ago passed he by. Zarathustra he was called; but he hath altered.
Then thou carriedst thine ashes into the mountains: wilt thou now carry thy fire into the valleys? Fearest thou not the incendiary’s doom?
Yea, I recognise Zarathustra. Pure is his eye, and no loathing lurketh about his mouth. Goeth he not along like a dancer?
Altered is Zarathustra; a child hath Zarathustra become; an awakened one is Zarathustra: what wilt thou do in the land of the sleepers?
As in the sea hast thou lived in solitude, and it hath borne thee up. Alas, wilt thou now go ashore? Alas, wilt thou again drag thy body thyself?”
Zarathustra answered: “I love mankind.”
“Why,” said the saint, “did I go into the forest and the desert? Was it not because I loved men far too well?
Now I love God: men, I do not love. Man is a thing too imperfect for me. Love to man would be fatal to me.”
Zarathustra answered: “What spake I of love! I am bringing gifts unto men.”
“Give them nothing,” said the saint. “Take rather part of their load, and carry it along with them—that will be most agreeable unto them: if only it be agreeable unto thee!
If, however, thou wilt give unto them, give them no more than an alms, and let them also beg for it!”
“No,” replied Zarathustra, “I give no alms. I am not poor enough for that.”
The saint laughed at Zarathustra, and spake thus: “Then see to it that they accept thy treasures! They are distrustful of anchorites, and do not believe that we come with gifts.
The fall of our footsteps ringeth too hollow through their streets. And just as at night, when they are in bed and hear a man abroad long before sunrise, so they ask themselves concerning us: Where goeth the thief?
Go not to men, but stay in the forest! Go rather to the animals! Why not be like me—a bear amongst bears, a bird amongst birds?”